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This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Posted by hhorvath384 on 29 Aug 2018 at 22:52 GMT

Given the irreversible nature of all current transgender interventions - drastic surgeries to remove healthy organs (breasts, uterus, ovaries, fallopian tubes in women; testicles in men); not to mention other serious surgeries to create a pseudo-penis or pseudo vagina) [1]; lifelong regimens of drugs that carry significant risk of cardiovascular events [2]; and never mind that there has never been even one comparative study of cognitive-behavioral therapy or other highly applicable therapies to alleviate gender dysphoria without all the surgical & hormonal rigamarole [3] - one might suppose that transgender activists would support Dr. Littman's research. One would be wrong. Instead, they are doing their best to suppress it. Wouldn't it be better to know more about the young people whose "trans" ideation developed only recently? Assuming that anyone "is trans" (I've seen no evidence that anyone "is trans," vs. affirmations, cross-dressing and increasingly elaborate roleplay), why not try to understand the phenomenon? Why rush these young people into "care," as the activists insist on doing?

It is an especially dangerous time for girls and young women who get the notion that they're "trans." Activist physician Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy of Children's Hospital Los Angeles has referred at least two 13 year old girls for radical mastectomies of their healthy breasts, as well as many other girls aged 14, 15, 16. Olson-Kennedy actually promotes the idea that such girls should have this massive surgery as quickly as possible after their self-diagnoses, even before taking testosterone. [4]

It is rather alarming that so many people who appear to have a personal or professional stake in naturalizing the highly speculative hypothesis of "innate gender identity" have exerted themselves to suppress this one little study.

Hacsi Horvath, MA, PgCert(Sheffield)
Lecturer (adj.), Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics
University of California, San Francisco

REFERENCES:

1. Berli JU, Knudson G, Fraser L, Tangpricha V, Ettner R, Ettner FM, et al. What Surgeons Need to Know About Gender Confirmation Surgery When Providing Care for Transgender Individuals: A Review. JAMA Surg. 2017 Apr 1;152(4):394-400.

2 Maraka S, Singh Ospina N, Rodriguez-Gutierrez R, Davidge-Pitts CJ, Nippoldt TB, Prokop LJ, Murad MH. Sex Steroids and Cardiovascular Outcomes in Transgender Individuals: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2017
Nov 1;102(11):3914-3923.

3. Own research, unpublished

4. Olson-Kennedy J, Warus J, Okonta V, Belzer M, Clark LF. Chest Reconstruction and Chest Dysphoria in Transmasculine Minors and Young Adults: Comparisons of Nonsurgical and Postsurgical Cohorts. JAMA Pediatr. 2018 May 1;172(5):431-436.

No competing interests declared.

RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to hhorvath384 on 30 Aug 2018 at 04:00 GMT

You have to remember, scrutiny and criticism is a healthy and normal part of science. Submit a paper claiming to have found a new phenomenon and you will get grilled by reviewers who demand you provide additional evidence and carry out more experiments before your work is accepted. Some times, papers fall through the cracks and scrutiny happens after publication.

To my knowledge this is the first and only study in the modern age to claim to have discovered a new disease but not have assessed so much as a single one of the alleged cases. Of course there would be scrutiny, what this study tried, by bypassing case studies, and stronger evidence in favor of polling political sites is unprecedented. The usual methods for sound evidence weren't used so regardless of the topic, this study would have been set by controversy.

Why Littman and her assistants didn't take an extra year to carry out case studies of people they say are ROGD is beyond me. Had they at least assessed purported ROGD cases, the study would have been better protected from criticism.

As is, we only hear about alleged cases second hand, from polls and surveys in three ultrapartisan websites, Littman says they are: "4thwavenow, transgender trend, and youthtranscriticalprofessionals" A quick check shows they're involved in a variety of religious right initiatives ranging from bathroom bills to attempts at criminalizing transition, 4thwavenow even tags most of their stories with slurs such as "trans cult". Don't you think it likely that political bias of the sites would skew a poll's result the same way that polling antivax sites would give someone the false impression of vaccine induced autism?

Surely we need more evidence than this before we proclaim the discovery of some new disease.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

hhorvath384 replied to Deleted_Account on 30 Aug 2018 at 14:03 GMT

We probably won't agree, but please consider my responses to the points you make.

I wonder if you have misunderstood the study. Yes, criticism is important. But it is not that she has discovered a "new disease." Rather, her aim is to describe the unexpected new way in which gender dysphoria appears: very suddenly, and sometimes even in clusters.

"The purpose of this research is (1) to describe an atypical presentation of gender dysphoria occurring with sudden and rapid onset in adolescents and young adults; and (2) to generate hypotheses about the condition, including the role of social and peer contagion in its development."

Do you see? It's a descriptive study. It is entirely appropriate to describe a newly-observed difference phenomenon in this way. Subsequent, more rigorous studies can look more closely and perform analyses.

If this were any other area of health care besides "trans," global public health leaders would be calling for caution, everyone please slow down. This is an epidemic. You may know that historically, in adolescents (and adults) presenting with gender dysphoria, gender identity disorder, transsexualism, transvestism, or whatever they were calling it, populations were overwhelmingly male, and numbers were small. Numbers of child and adolescent patients began to increase through the 1990s (Aitken 2015) and by by now seem to have exploded (deGraaf 2018).

From around 2004, clinicians began to see that equivalent or even larger proportions of girls were presenting (Aitken 2015) .In 10 of 10 studies published between 2014 and 2018 that I identified, investigators reported female proportions as 51.5% (Olson 2015), 54% (Khatchadourian 2014), 58% (Chen 2016), 63.3% (Aitken 2015), 63.9% (Aitken 2009), 68% (deGraaf 2018), Olson-Kennedy progress report (68.8%), 75% (Frisen 2015), 77% (Chiniara 2018), and 87% (Kaltiala-Heino 2015).

You may think it's great to be "trans," the more the merrier, but look at it from the public health perspective: I'll use imaginary numbers in my imaginary example. "In 2000 in the USA, 20 healthy adolescents were found to require lifelong drug treatment and for most, a range of drastic surgeries. In the year 2005, it was 80 such adolescents. In 2010, it was 200 such adolescents. In 2015, it was 800 such adolesccents. In 2018, it was 5,000 such adolescents." Can you see why this has been an emerging problem?

The "trans" activists will insist that all these young people (mostly young women) "have always been trans." They have no evidence for this except that they really want it to be true.

If you have been a parent to a teenager, you know well that they arje quite changeable and often use poor judgement. It is important to stay mature if our child announces he or she is "trans", and not capitulate to the "gender" ideologues.

Finally, you're quite wrong about the web sites being "ultrapartisan." Partisan against young being pushed into the transmachine, yes. Politically partisan, absolutely not. Parents have a range of core principles and beliefs. Most are on the liberal side. I'll preface this last by saying that I used to be an anarchist and now cannot be defined, but why do many advocates of transgenderism believe that if they simply say "religious right," the world will recoil in horror? It's ridiculous. Similarly, why would you want everyone to believe the same boring stuff all together as one? Diversity of opinion & belief is a beautiful thing.

I honestly don't think you read the whole paper. Please consider doing so.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to hhorvath384 on 30 Aug 2018 at 15:09 GMT

How can it be a descriptive study when not a single purported ROGD case was evaluated? You make it sound as if this paper were a long series of cases studies on patients with the alleged conditions. Instead, our only evidence is straw polls gathered from three avowedly partisan websites. I would like it if you could find me another study where this was considered an adequate method for proving a new hypothetical disease exists.

And yes, this paper claims to have discovered a new disease, in the now retracted Brown press release, Littman claimed to have discovered a disease distinct from the recognized gender dysphoria. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Perhaps you don't think anything is wrong with those websites habitually using slurs for most of their posts, or plugging in religious right political campaigns. Your post has not been a defense of the study methods itself, instead you're trying to convince me that trans is morally wrong in your eyes and using insulting terms such as, "transgenderism" and "transmachine" (akin to the "trans cult" Littman's surveyed websites threw around with everything), words I've only seen on the likes of Alex Jones pages. Wouldn't you say your political lobbying is outside the scope of this paper is flawed? If this paper should be retracted has nothing to do on if trans as you claim is morally wrong, it has everything to do with methods being wrong, if there is adequate evidence to support the claims made.

Please put aside your animosity to lgbt groups and lets simply look at the methods. Please tell me what other studies eschewed all assessment of all people with the new disease they claim to have discovered and instead tried to substitute with anecdotes from politically crusading relatives gathered from polling partisan websites. I've read the paper, I'm troubled of how the paper, especially in the discussion speaks of ROGD as if it were a certainty and Littman gathered overwhelming proof, despite the methods ensuring there isn't so much as a single confirmed case. There are good studies with overwhelming evidence that carry their discussion with less certainty. I suggest you read any of the seminal papers to have discovered diseases and compare their methods and the reach of their claims to this.

Marshall et al. 1985, might be a good benchmark, they went, methodically gathered overwhelming evidence of a "contagion" induced ulcer disease as you might call it, which was very controversial at the time. First by assessing cases, then by proving causality. No stone went unturned and still, his discussion spoke with less certainty than here. Imagine, what if all Marshall had done was poll new age clubs and speak to relatives of people allegedly struck by the contagion? Littman begs the question, this paper treats the hypothetical disease ROGD and discusses it as if we already had proof it exists. We don't, the long evidence gathering step was skipped.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

crobinson775 replied to Deleted_Account on 02 Sep 2018 at 03:20 GMT

"And yes, this paper claims to have discovered a new disease, in the now retracted Brown press release, Littman claimed to have discovered a disease distinct from the recognized gender dysphoria."
Then why don’t you quote what exactly Lisa Littman said in that now-retracted press release, and explain how your quote can be verified now?

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

ssingh526 replied to crobinson775 on 02 Sep 2018 at 19:49 GMT

Thanks to internet archives like the wayback machine and google cache anything posted on the internet is always there for anyone that looks.

https://web.archive.org/w...

"This suggests that the drive to transition expressed by these teens and young adults could be a harmful coping mechanism like drugs, alcohol or cutting, Littman said. With harmful coping mechanisms, certain behaviors are used to avoid feeling negative emotions in the short term, but they do not solve the underlying problems and they often cause additional problems, she noted."

Littman not only has diagnosed people she has never met with a new never before discovered disease she even has attributed possible causes to this new disease. Despite having never produced one case study and there being no patient zero.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

awalker465 replied to hhorvath384 on 30 Aug 2018 at 21:11 GMT

We do already have a substantial amount of evidence pointing towards innate gender identities. [1-9] We've observed that transgender individuals tend to have certain brain regions which match those of what they identify with (much in the same way as we've found for homosexual individuals - which is linked by a common phenomology of prenatal hormonal exposure).

We have interesting intersex cases which show some remarkable things:
1) Complete androgen insensitvity syndrome (CAIS) XY women, who are born with female anatomy, raised as female and develop female identities
2) Individuals with 5-alpha-reductase defficiency, those who were born with female anatomy, raised as female, but go through male puberty and grow a penis during puberty due to the lack of DHT within the womb. Such individuals, despite being socialised as female will develop dysphoria. "Why?"

The genitals have receptors for both sex hormones, in the womb this allows for them to diverge into either genital class or be intersex. All nerve cells in the brain also have such receptors and allows them to diverge in a separate stage of pregnancy. We've even done some research onto the limits that biology and socialisation can have producing some very valuable insights [10] that shows that strong prenatal hormonal exposure will triumph over socialisation (and even cause it to be exaggerated - perhaps in rebellion over repression).

On a cross-cultural side, for millennia we've had transgender people, whether they be kathoey, two-spirit, Hijra, Muxe, Māhū, Fakaleiti, Fa'afafine, Uranian, Calabai, Bissu, Calalai, Khanith. This is all around the world, in isolated cultures. Can you not clearly see that something that transcends all world cultures indicates a biological phenomenon, not a mental illness.

All of this points to a deeper, innate phenomenon, with strong links to biology.

[1]Zhou JN Hofman MA Gooren LJ Swaab DF. 1995. A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. Nature . 378:68–70.
[2]Garcia-Falgueras A Swaab DF. 2008. A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. Brain . 131:3132–3146.
[3]Nawata H Ogomori K Tanaka M Nishimura R Urashima H Yano R Takano K Kuwabara Y. 2010. Regional cerebral blood flow changes in female to male gender identity disorder. Psychiatry Clin Neurosci . 64:157–161.
[4]Schoning S Engelien A Bauer C Kugel H Kersting A Roestel C Zwitserlood P Pyka M Dannlowski U Lehmann Wet al. 2010. Neuroimaging differences in spatial cognition between men and male-to-female transsexuals before and during hormone therapy. J Sex Med . 7:1858–1867.
[5]Simon L Kozak LR Simon V Czobor P Unoka Z Szabo A Csukly G. 2013. Regional grey matter structure differences between transsexuals and healthy controls – a voxel based morphometry study. PloS One . 8:e83947.
[6]Rametti G Carrillo B Gomez-Gil E Junque C Segovia S Gomez A Guillamon A. 2011. White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. J Psychiatr Res . 45:199–204.
[7]Rametti G Carrillo B Gomez-Gil E Junque C Zubiarre-Elorza L Segovia S Gomez A Guillamon A. 2011. The microstructure of white matter in male to female transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A DTI study. J Psychiatr Res . 45:949–954.
[8]Swaab DF Garcia-Falgueras A. 2009. Sexual differentiation of the human brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation. Funct Neurol . 24:17–28.
[9]Bao AM Swaab DF. 2011. Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relation to gender identity, sexual orientation and neuropsychiatric disorders. Front Neuroendocrinol . 32:214–226.
[10]Udry, J. Biological Limits of Gender Construction, American Sociological Review, 2000; 65, 443-457.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to awalker465 on 30 Aug 2018 at 23:54 GMT

You might be correct, but Horvath's discussion about what they view as the immortality and purported danger of transition distracts from what's relevant to if this paper should have been published. Weak methods and overreach in claims made in the discussion.

I'm putting aside whatever biases I might have and simply critiquing this paper on it's merits: As I've mentioned, this might be the only study in modern history to claim to have discovered a new disease but not have assessed so much as a single one of the purported ROGD young adults. Had Littman truly made a discriptive study that served as a viable starting point, then we would have had case studies of these allegedly ROGD young adults she found.

Instead, the only evidence given were polls carried out on "4thwavenow, transgender trend, and youthtranscriticalprofessionals" which routinely tag all of their stories with slurs such as this "https://4thwavenow.com/pa...". Horvath says the slurs are justified because of what our fellow commenter sees as immorality, this is asides from the point: if your only evidence comes from polling relatives on diehard anti-lgbt sites then not only are they anecdotes, but anecdotes probably driven by politics. This is not proof of the new disease Littman claims to have found, it's just proof that die hard religious right partisans think lgbt "recruit" kids, the findings should have been stated as such instead of claiming the discovery of some spectacular new disease when there's no actual descriptive data regarding the purported ROGD patients.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

datomos replied to Deleted_Account on 02 Sep 2018 at 07:11 GMT

"[I]f your only evidence comes from polling relatives on diehard anti-lgbt sites then not only are they anecdotes, but anecdotes probably driven by politics. This is not proof of the new disease Littman claims to have found, it's just proof that die hard religious right partisans think lgbt "recruit" kids."

Jnoriega, you didn't read the tables nor the total of Lisa Littman's journal article. Consider this from her survey:

Parent attitude on allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry legally:

Favor: 220
Oppose: 19
Don't know: 17

Parent belief that transgender people deserve the same rights and
protections as others:

Yes: 225
No: 8
Don't know: 20
Other: 2

"Baseline characteristics (Table 1) included that the vast majority of parents favored gay and les-
bian couples’ right to legally marry (85.9%) and believed that transgender individuals deserve
the same rights and protections as other individuals in their country (88.2%)."

And these parents are anti-gay, homophobic and are "die hard religious right partisans"?

That would be a 'no'.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to datomos on 02 Sep 2018 at 15:47 GMT

I can consider that when you poll people, especially people recruited from avowedly political websites they might answer anything they can to promote their world view. This is not uncontroversial: coverage from Retraction Watch addresses this, not just for this study, but others as well. It's also a likely snowball effect in announcing recruitment from political sites as you will gather the most committed partisans.

You say that the members of 4thwavenow are not prejudiced against lgbt, but then why does every one of their articles start with slurs such as this https://4thwavenow.com/pa... even their filing system is a collection of slurs. Don't you think it possible that a group where all it's writers call lgbt a "cult" or similar might be biased and unreliable narrators?

And yes, I encourage all reviewers not to go by second hand data from me or Hovarth or any of our fellow commenters, but instead inspect the sites Littman polled, such as https://4thwavenow.com/pa... and decide if the pervasive political bias in the sites, instead of unconfirmed ROGD cases may not account for the survey results.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Ring replied to datomos on 17 Sep 2018 at 21:48 GMT

False correlation alert

Checking a box that says you believe trans folks should have the same protections under the law means Only that. It should not be used to extrapolate Feelings towards their child coming out as trans. I’m sure if you asked them if they thought Nazis should be able to marry, they would check that box, too.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

datomos replied to Deleted_Account on 02 Sep 2018 at 07:23 GMT

"[I]f your only evidence comes from polling relatives on diehard anti-lgbt sites then not only are they anecdotes, but anecdotes probably driven by politics. This is not proof of the new disease Littman claims to have found, it's just proof that die hard religious right partisans think lgbt "recruit" kids."

Jnoriega, you didn't read the tables nor the total of Lisa Littman's journal article. Consider this from her survey:

"After cleaning the data for the 274 completed surveys, 8 surveys were excluded for not having a sudden
or rapid onset of gender dysphoria and 10 surveys were excluded for not having gender dysphoria that began during or after puberty, which left 256 completed surveys for inclusion. As the survey was voluntary there was no refusal or dropout rate."

*Parent attitude on allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry legally*

Favor: 220
Oppose: 19
Don't know: 17

*Parent belief that transgender people deserve the same rights and
protections as others*

Yes: 225
No: 8
Don't know: 20
Other: 2

"Baseline characteristics (Table 1) included that the vast majority of parents favored gay and les-
bian couples’ right to legally marry (85.9%) and believed that transgender individuals deserve
the same rights and protections as other individuals in their country (88.2%)."

And these parents are anti-gay, homophobic and are "die hard religious right partisans"?

That would be a 'no'.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to datomos on 02 Sep 2018 at 15:49 GMT

I can consider that when you poll people, especially people recruited from political websites they might answer anything they can to promote their world view. This is not uncontroversial coverage from Retraction Watch addresses this, not just for this study, but others as well. It's also a likely snowball effect in announcing recruitment from political sites as you will gather the most committed partisans.

You say that the members of 4thwavenow are not prejudiced against lgbt, but then why does every one of their articles start with slurs such as this https://4thwavenow.com/pa... even their filing system is a collection of slurs. Don't you think it possible that a group where all it's writers call lgbt a "cult" or similar might be biased and unreliable narrators?

And yes, I encourage all reviewers not to go by second hand data from me or Hovarth or any of our fellow commenters, but instead inspect the sites Littman polled, such as https://4thwavenow.com/pa... and decide if the pervasive political bias in the sites, instead of unconfirmed ROGD cases may not account for the survey results.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

hhorvath384 replied to awalker465 on 03 Sep 2018 at 00:20 GMT

Yes, you can call it a "substantial amount of evidence," but when you read this research carefully with thinking cap on tight, it all falls apart. In the references you cite, think about Zhou et al 1995. It's evidence from the brains of half a dozen cadavers who in life had taken estrogen for decades. Junk. Or the other studies of "similarities" or "differences" in brains. Fine, perhaps they found these. However: Are the "MTF" participants all androphilic? Yet male controls are gynephilic (or not mentioned and presumed mostly so) and female controls are androphilic (or not mentioned and presumed mostly so)? How shocking that no-one mentions the possibility that observed associations are far more likely related to male homosexuality than being born in the wrong body (Blanchard 2008)

In their review, Guillamon and colleagues (2016) also point out:

"Some studies in the literature have used groups of mixed samples of MtFs in regard to their sexual orientation and this aspect was also unspecified in their control groups (Luders et al., 2009b, 2012). Others mix homosexual and nonhomosexual MtFs and FtMs and use a gathering of heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual subjects as controls (Hahn et al., 2015; Kranz et al., 2014). These studies are very difficult to interpret and any comparison with the structural data presented in the previous sections, studying homogeneous groups of homosexual or nonhomosexual MtFs or FtMs, could confuse the picture of the brain structure of MtFs and FtMs in the context of the expression of sex differences."

Despite the vast majority of males modifying their bodies to superficially resemble women's bodies being heterosexual straight guys, very few examine this population. Savic and Arver (2011) did so.

"Contrary to the primary hypothesis, no sex-atypical features with signs of “feminization” were detected in the transsexual group. Instead, we found significant volume reductions of the thalamus and putamen in MtF-TR and significant increases in GM volumes in an area covering the right angular gyrus and posterior portion of the superior temporal gyrus and in the right insular and inferior frontal cortex. [...] One highly speculative thought is that the enlargement of the GM volume in the insular and inferior frontal cortex and the superior temporal-angular gyrus could derive from a constant rumination about the own body. [...] The present study does not support the dogma that MtF-TR have atypical sex dimorphism in the brain but confirms the previously reported sex differences in structural volumes, gray, and WM fractions."

In a subsequent review, Guillamon and colleagues (2016) suggest that up to that point, no further studies had been undertaken in heterosexual males who insisted that they were "female." Incidentally, they also explicitly note that Blanchard (2008) was correrct in his prediction that "if there is any neuroanatomic intersexuality, it is in the homosexual group."

Whatever similarities a "trans" person may have with the opposite sex that are different from what is expected in his or her own sex could have lots of other meanings that are never explored. Confirmation bias is rampant in "trans" research. "Feeling like the opposite sex" is never described without use of stereotypes. There has been exactly zero research into psychosocial etiologies of transgenderism but numerous, expensive fishing trips that demand to situate "gender identity" in the body. Why? Harry Benjamin said so, and no-one has ever questioned it. Fishing trips never quite reel in the catch, but findings are always "tantalizing" or "exciting." Spin and hype!

References:

Billings DB, Urban T. The Socio-Medical Construction of Transsexualism: An Interpretation and Critique. Social Problems. 1982 Feb:29(3);266-282

Blanchard R. Deconstructing the feminine essence narrative. Arch Sex Behav. 2008;37:434–438.

Button KS, Ioannidis JP, Mokrysz C, Nosek BA, Flint J, Robinson ES, Munafò MR. Power failure: why small sample size undermines the reliability of neuroscience. Nat Rev Neurosci. 2013 May;14(5):365-76. doi: 10.1038/nrn3475

Guillamon A, Junque C, Gómez-Gil E. A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism. Arch Sex Behav. 2016 Oct;45(7):1615-48. doi: 10.1007/s10508-016-0768-5.

Savic I, Arver S. Sex dimorphism of the brain in male-to-female transsexuals. Cereb Cortex. 2011 Nov;21(11):2525-33. doi: 10.1093/cercor/bhr032..

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to hhorvath384 on 03 Sep 2018 at 16:51 GMT

Again this is completely irrelevant to if this study is publishable in quality. Your arguments have hinged on if transition is dangerous or immoral as you claim it is and if being trans is "fake" in your eyes. This is utterly irrelevant to the paper's methodology and discussion problems. I think we would be much better served by focusing discussion on the paper and not attacking groups you might blame for the criticism.

So anyway, PLOSone wants all assessment to focus the scientific merits of the study: I can say that one of the red flags is not a single case was assessed to confirm this "new and distinct" ROGD condition Littman claims to have found. This study can not be called a descriptive study of ROGD when no case studies or any other assessment of the allegedly ROGD young adults took place.

It would be more accurate to call it a descriptive study on poltical view, a poll of the attitudes of hyperpartisan websites. As everyone has seen by now, the sites Littman polled refer to being lgbt a cult; they even have their electronic tags/filling system be based off slurs as the previously posted links show. Are the answers we are getting really any evidence for ROGD or are they merely die-hard political crusaders who use slurs such as "trans cult" giving whatever answers they can to "prove" ROGD (a term which that 4thwavenow seems to have coined years before this study began) exists? We don't know? Littman never corroborated their statements by assessing any of the supposed youth with ROGD and instead of confirming treated the polls as proof of evidence. I'll be honest: I didn't think you could skip that step, claim you found a new phenomenon without evidence, and still get published.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

llittman replied to Deleted_Account on 03 Sep 2018 at 17:13 GMT

Jnoriega,

Quick correction about the origins of the term, "rapid onset gender dysphoria".

The websites and parents viewing the websites did not create the term "rapid-onset gender dysphoria". I created the term to refer to the phenomenon that I intended to study. I used the term in the title of the research plan and it appeared publicly for the first time in the recruitment information that was posted. The term seemed to resonate with the parents who were observing the phenomenon. Now the term seems to be used more broadly.

No competing interests declared.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This study is perfectly acceptable. Activists may have other motivations for trying to suppress it.

Deleted_Account replied to llittman on 03 Sep 2018 at 18:13 GMT

If I'm mistaken I'm sorry, I've looked through the websites you selected as sources and other blogs affiliated with them. They've been using the term "rapid-onset gender dysphoria" since at least the start of 2016, if not earlier. That would predate the inception of this study wouldn't it? I don't have access to nonpublic information but going by a google search they are by far the first websites to ever adopt or coin the term.

Don't you think it likely if they were such enthusiastic early adopters of the term that they might not say whatever they can to prove their cause celebre. Their website is full of slurs like "trans cult" as can be easily checked, I don't think it's a stretch to say that they are very partisan. I think that should have been more clearly disclosed.

No competing interests declared.