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Responses to some of the points raised

Posted by spjupmc on 20 Aug 2012 at 21:51 GMT

Many thanks for all the helpful comments on our paper. I am not responding to them all at this time but just some of the key ones relating to the health economic analysis (which is my speciality).

1. It has been suggested that the use of self-reported outcome measures is a limitation of this study. I disagree. While clinician-administered measures have a definite place in research many are of the opinion that it is those who experience conditions such as CFS/ME who are the best judges of the severity of these conditions. There is a widespread movement in favour of patient-related outcome measures, of which the EQ-5D is one, and to turn back the tide on this would not be helpful.

2. One of the key findings from this study was that CBT and GET substantially reduced the amount of time that family members spent providing care. It is somewhat surprising that almost all commentators (with one notable exception) on the paper have ignored this. We assume that the impact on families is important and it would be helpful to have comments on this aspect.

3. The study has been criticised because there very limited impacts on employment. While reductions in lost employment would have been welcome we do have to ask whether this is the success indicator by which interventions should be judged. Is it really being suggested that gaining employment should be the primary aim of a successful intervention? After a long spell out of work this may be very difficult especially in the current economic environment. Reducing symptoms and improving quality of life are surely important outcomes and building up capacity and confidence to work again is likely to take time.

Competing interests declared: Lead author

RE: Responses to some of the points raised

MEAdvocacy replied to spjupmc on 22 Aug 2012 at 19:20 GMT

Use of self-reported outcome measures whether by patients or clinicians would be a limitation of any study, as they do not represent scientific evidence and are open to cognitive bias by all involved. To continue to use these anecdotal reports is not helpful in elucidating the pathophysiology of any disease or in developing effective treatments.

Although you are now placing emphasis on the reduction in time family members spend providing care, it was not a primary outcome or primary objective for the PACE trial. The study was meant to assess the effectiveness of CBT, GET, and your own invention of graded activity, called APT, in reducing fatigue and or disability, and the costs-effectiveness of these approaches. On all counts the study failed.

Considering that you were trying to persuade patients and their families that CBT would reverse cognitive and behavioural responses you believe cause a fear avoidance, and GET was used to support your belief that patients are deconditioned and avoid activity, then it is reasonable to suspect that family members were persuaded to no longer provide the assistance necessary, not that patients needed less care. This could have been avoided if you had not told patients and their families during the trial that improvement and recovery were possible using CBT and GET.

Patients in the CBT arm actually displayed no objective improvement of any kind, and hence the hypothesis that disability stemmed from a fear based avoidance of exercise was disproven.

The PACE trial has been criticised for numerous reasons, these include, not admitting ME patients into the study, for not using any objective measure, for failing to provide evidence that CBT and GET are clinically effective treatments and for failing to report primary outcome measures. Further legitimate criticisms can be found in Professor Malcolm Hooper's report, ‘Magical Medicine: How to Make a Disease Disappear’, and subsequent correspondence regarding a legitimate official complaint with the Department of Health.

Magical Medicine
Professor Malcolm Hooper
February 2010
http://www.meactionuk.org...

UPDATE ON THE PACE TRIAL
Professor Malcolm Hooper
11th July 2012
http://www.meactionuk.org...

The lack of clinical benefit demonstrated by even a cursory examination of the data means that from a patient treatment perspective the PACE study protocols were an abject failure. Suggesting that you needed more time to get patients back to work is also not supported by the evidence, as you were given a whole 52 weeks in which to attempt to have your beliefs fit your preconceived ideological position.

It is particularly noteworthy that the data on practical significance and clinical importance has been withheld. NICE would not approve a treatment without such data. Another major omission is the data demonstrating the numbers needed to harm (NNH) for these interventions. How long do you intend to keep this data from being publicly scrutinised?

No competing interests declared.

RE: Responses to some of the points raised

dtfraser replied to spjupmc on 24 Aug 2012 at 10:31 GMT

Paul McCrone states that: "While clinician-administered measures have a definite place in research many are of the opinion that it is those who experience conditions such as CFS/ME who are the best judges of the severity of these conditions".

It would follow that in order to measure severity, those who have experience of CFS/ME would need to be, at the very least, equally involved in the design of measuring instruments, to ensure that instruments being used are not simply mechanisms that inadvertently tend to confirm the ideas of researchers.

Kindlon has discussed another aspect of the subject where the "best judges" are those with relevant experience.

"However, exercise-related physiological abnormalities have been documented in recent studies and high rates of adverse reactions to exercise have been recorded in a number of patient surveys. Fifty-one percent of survey respondents (range 28-82%, n=4338, 8 surveys) reported that GET worsened their health while 20% of respondents (range 7-38%, n=1808, 5 surveys) reported similar results for CBT".

Despite certain reservations, Kindlon concludes the section by pointing out that: "the consistently high rates and absolute numbers of adverse reactions coupled with the potentially disabling effects of GET and CBT reported in these surveys are concerning and need to be investigated more thoroughly".

Paul McCrone asks: "Is it really being suggested that gaining employment should be the primary aim of a successful intervention?".

Yes.

The Department of Work and Pensions who partly funded this trial have stated:

"We believe that the findings of the trial will contribute to the continuingly growing evidence base, which informs the development of health and work related policy, policy based on the large body of evidence showing that work is good for physical and mental wellbeing and that being out of work can lead to poor health and other negative outcomes".


1) Reporting of Harms Associated with Graded Exercise Therapy and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Tom Kindlon Bulletin of the IACFS/ME. 2011;19(2): 59-111.
http://www.iacfsme.org/BU...

2) http://www.whatdotheyknow...

No competing interests declared.

RE: Responses to some of the points raised

PeterKemp replied to spjupmc on 05 Sep 2012 at 22:52 GMT

"many are of the opinion that it is those who experience conditions such as CFS/ME who are the best judges of the severity of these conditions."

Personally, I would agree with this. However, the Research Protocol clearly shows that the premise for treatments is that patients misjudge or misinterpret symptoms. e.g.: "CBT will be based on the illness model of fear avoidance".

If this were correct it would make participants an unreliable source of information about their illness and incapacity. Objective measurements were therefore an obvious requirement. Without them, the research could simply be reporting what participants say about their symptoms - when such subjective opinions were originally considered erroneous.

This is not science.

Competing interests declared: M.E. patient and advocate.

RE: RE: Responses to some of the points raised

spjupmc replied to PeterKemp on 06 Sep 2012 at 08:12 GMT

I am a health economist and in economic evaluations such as this one we usually use QALYs. These are based, quite correctly in my opinion, on patient reported outcomes (in this case the NICE-recommended EQ5D). We have been clear from the start that the economic evaluation would use QALYs and if we had not done this we would - rightly - been heavily criticised. You may question the science of this but it is the established methodology to use.

Competing interests declared: Author of the paper

RE: RE: RE: Responses to some of the points raised

MEAdvocacy replied to spjupmc on 14 Sep 2012 at 16:23 GMT

If there is no empirical science to support the paper then the fact that it is accepted is neither here nor there. Without determining the practical significance or clinical importance, there is nothing to base a calculation on apart from supposition and cognitive bias.

No competing interests declared.